Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Wow nice pic upload!
I’m going to echo some of my experience as well in relation to Matt’s post.
I will say the Firefly seems to sound more like a tapered guitar to me, but any OOO, OM, OM Grand, or Square Shoulder D from Santa Cruz that is scalloped I have noticed when you strum it with enthusiasm or using blue chip picks etc, it becomes very unbalanced in it’s voice. It has a shift towards getting lean or shallow on the low end, losing mid punch, and accentuating the treble. That’s what happens under my fingers to my ears. Mediums help smooth that out, but my OM Grand sounds too dark and thick with them… loses the air that it desperately needs
I’ve noticed the tapered bracing in VS or F models for the songs I play tends to give me back what I put in without messing with it as much. The H13 is kind of somewhere in between. Shockingly the firefly is like that even though it’s scalloped. If I were playing less laid back music, more classic rock or country, or playing more finger style these things would probably be very helpful. Playing more mellow stirring things and especially strumming and singing the tapered seems to support my vocals better.
I also think the long scale with the scalloped bracing causes too much tension for strumming. The tension effects the overtones and fundamental ratio and the quickness of the onset doesn’t let the attack be too woody.
I think when Matt said compression, I agree. The shorter scale and tapered bracing do give you more of a compressed sound like someone has a compressor set to slow and punchy. For me that is really desirable for what I am usually playing. I also noticed the tapered bracing and shorter scale result in a deeper feel.
The H13 was unusual from the others falling in neither camp to me, but probably a little closer to scalloped.
I think it might be interesting since I look for more depth, woodiness, and open feeling in my OM Grand to order a tapered braced, deep body, short scale one with adirondack top. I have compared the OM Grand to OOO a lot and I like the sweet clearness and open top end of the OOO better, just responds better to me but would definitely want some extra depth out of the OOO. Not sure how tapered bracing would work on it. I do like the voicing of it as it is if there was extra depth and punch available. ** I’m fine with the volume difference in amplitude between the OM G and OOO, I just would like a deeper low end fundamental to accompany the sweetness on the OOO. . . kind of like how the firefly is very balanced although quiet.
Also Matt, I agree with you the nodes are more specific. I have advanced X on my OM Grand and it seems like there are only certain parts of the neck where it’s voice comes out. What you’re saying is that it sounds like the voicing, EQ, and nodes are wider and more even on the tapered guitars
I do hear more amplitude with the scalloped stuff , but it’s not usable amplitude for me because of it’s tension and voice shifting under strumming. If I were often playing in a dense mix that would probably be of more assistance.
Hmmm interesting response.
Thank you Matt and Tad, yes I agree it sounds like a podcast.
See, I theoretically understand what you’re saying Matt on them, but a lot of the scalloped guitars from Santa Cruz to me seem to be great for finger style in the sense you’re talking about but those qualities morph when you start strumming and playing with blue chips. A lot of the scalloped guitars – I think firefly being an exception – seem to emphasize the top two strings to me in the voice. I can listen and hear the balance, but my ears just casually musically listening hear tension and a shift to the upper part of guitar. The tapered ones usually seem to be better with picks in that they don’t do that and have more fundamental depth. Having said that, I played a VS that sounded more like a D model SC than a Sloped D… and then one that sounded like what I expected.
That’s why I’m confused. Perhaps scalloped works better for lighter driving of the top and tapered works better when playing very strummy and rhythmically? More even punch? Maybe scalloped has a quicker response and thusly has more PANG on the top end but tapered is more even and has more Thwump?
Then there is the Firefly I played in Houston and put up on the forum that just defies all of that. lol – I would LOVE to know more about it Tad, so if you could do a podcast on how bracing and body shape effects the VOICE but not necessarily the power and amount of bass that would be cool. I’m talking about the voice as the perceived qualities of the guitar that are at the forefront and give it it’s character.
Is that the same as Ziricote?
That’s awesome you have that old of wood!
Cedar and rosewood is my favorite combination on the firefly, you sacrifice volume but you get everything else like a classical guitar…. and it even strums just as well as finger. Really the thing I notice with the cedar is you play lighter but with more dynamics… so I echo the ideal home and recording thing with it.
Mmmmmmmmm, dry forceful and mid-range are GOOD THINGS for Santa Cruz. In my opinion after getting to know them for ten years… You never have to ask for overtones, but if you want woody you do have to ask them to tone down the overtones. Dry and woody would be bad if you were talking about a gibson because it means it’s dead, but with Santa Cruz it means it’s got soul! And according to my handle you know I like guitars with Soul! 😀
I’m sure you know, but Santa Cruz guitars new can be brutally cold. I usually play mine hard for a year and use a ToneRite. It seems to take 2-3 months to wake them up, 2-3 more months for a decent break-in , and the rest of the year for them to become noticeably themselves. After 3-4 years I usually hit another looseness that I would consider being fully broken in. Past that we’re just talking about aging.
I’d really like to hear that guitar when it’s done…. dang , but I live in Texas
Let me know what you find out, I wouldn’t mind doing the same thing to my OM Grand as it just doesn’t ring my bell very much and if it doesn’t sell I’d rather do a 12 string than sell it for pennies
Nice, going to listen to that later. After having an OM Grand for 5 years (which is up for sale now), I can say I bet it would do really well with twelve strings to fill it out. It has that sound that’s waiting for it, especially italian and rosewood
Wow, that’s really interesting! I do permaculture so I can totally relate to the old growth forest thing. That is a very good point, if it grows in a mature forest it would be different. Thanks for the insight! How cool
Have you ever seen someone do one piece of a back mahogany, and one piece rosewood. Or one wood for the sides and one for the back? It seems like it would be too complicated to balance and blend everything, but just wondering if it has been done…. as opposed to what I understand laminate materials being stacked to be.
Did you see the video I uploaded to youtube and posted to the group about Abel armrest? If not search on the forum Abel and see if you see it. That’s the one I’ve been using this year, there is a definite difference in sound and feel. Maestro also commented over this either on the phone or email with me saying yes it does, and no they don’t take that account into the build… they leave technique entirely up to the player…. he said if guitarists were smart we might adopt classical position, but it’s easier to buy implements. I use the implement in classical position unless I want to get into a country position or something
The slope shoulders are my favorite, the dreadnoughts for me personally (though I’ll get attacked for this) have too much projection of low end and top end to feel like they have a super deep fundamental power. The tapered braced sloped shoulders with adirondack and a few other things though really have the depth and balance to my ear. I don’t play bluegrass or country though, so if you do you may find that the Dreadnoughts are where it’s at for you. If you are a big fan of Martin dreads you’d probably like theirs. My favorites of the D models are the VA and D12. 1934 Mahogany also really good.
For me the vintage southerner or RS is where it’s at though with the shorter scale. They have a more fundamental sound that just jives with me. I think they are better for pop, soul, gospel, R&B, singer song writer… pretty much everything … except that the D does bluegrass, country, country folk, and classic rock acoustics better and the smaller guitars do jazz better. My two favorites are RS and OOO, followed by something like a Firefly, OM Grand, or Skye or something to fill in. I’d be just happy to have an RS and OOO only though. Right now all I have is an OM Grand just as a disclaimer. Definitely don’t order italian spruce if you want fundamental low end… and I wouldn’t suggest sitka either since it doesn’t have the thump. Adirondack for me is the only way to go if you pick or strum.
Another disclaimer, my favorite vintage guitar would have to be something between a Southern Jumbo (J45 type) and an actual Jumbo J-200 whatever Everly Brothers type thing. Those really make me happy. Nothing tops santa cruz for me though, vintage or new.
Any dread or slope shoulder dread is going to be the biggest bassiest sounding… if you share with me some of your goals and musical tastes I think I could help you narrow it down more.
I’ve compared a sitka VS, adirondack VS, and 8 vintage gibson acoustics together back to back to back… and then picked out the adirondack VS and the best two gibsons by ear and then played those back to back. Santa Cruz VS took it away, but I still felt like it could have been more guitar. That’s why I prefer the 12 fret, old growth adirondack, old mahogany, brazilian bridge and fingerboard, old growth braces, hide glue…. all that stuff… to me it does make a difference because I spend so much time solo with the guitar. The stock offerings are not the pinnacle of what the company can do sonically, but they put great craftsmanship into everything. Feel free to contact me for any information… I’m a nut for these things
