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Just out of curiosity, I only usually record quality stuff straight into Logic and only have one nice mic. I have no idea how to sync video without using Quicktime’s record function … but what do you guys know of that makes recording easy in terms of when you’d use a cell phone? Do those handheld field recorders with the dual mic stereo axis things work well? Assuming you can plug them up to a phone and the phone does the work?
I listened to it before putting it up and found that I could hear the relative differences, but it must be because I am used to it so much that it’s more apparent to my memory than ear
I was trying to get this up and build some momentum in a busy time in my life towards the string comparison but I think i mostly ended up shooting myself in the foot and creating extra work for myself. I’ll keep at it though
Oh , I also meant to say… I like it when the phone is back that far because the sound waves seem to even out and I figured that I would get a more accurate sound of what it’s like to be in the room with it. Is this not something that I’m going to achieve? I don’t like when I listen to guitar demos and they have these close mic setups that have flattering responses and play very delicate passages in altered tunings because it’s kind of cultivating your demo instead of just putting out there what a more common musical use would be of the instrument. I’m definitely open to tips and critique to improve as I go. Thank you, the aim is to help people or at the very least give an entertaining topic!
Tad – different rooms, strings, and picks make a huge difference ! I have a handful of blue chip picks and routinely try out things over and over. I’ve been on a journey for 8 years with new santa cruz guitars… I’ve not been able to find a used one for me. Even the first 2-3 months, first 6 months, first 14 months, and first 2.5 years for me they always shift.
I do think if someone can hear the audio that they can hear in the context of the guitar + the player + the song an objective conclusion. That may not be applicable to a different situation, but it’s still a bit of information and after years of doing it, it tends to help you become more informed and I’m all for sharing that.
Zorro, my brain loves to mull over things and perfect them… that’s why I like to do mixing and mastering… but yes even I get to the TMI point. I’m still young so I like complexity… every year I like simpler living (although I promote it’s not due to age but the stress of material responsibilities)
Jeff, so glad to hear you’re having that experience. Playing a Santa Cruz guitar is a very special thing!
Totally agree bert, when mine was new it was soooo stiff.. I’ve had it five years and it has improved a lot
Hey Jeff, WELCOME!!! Thank you for joining us!
Yes, the FWI I was told would do exactly that and exacerbate the metallic sounds of cocobolo… so that’s really cool to hear someone relate their experiment also. He suggested that I go in the opposite direction of that.
I agree mid tensions are wonderful and really balance everything out.
Isn’t it remarkable how you never get tired of hearing a Santa Cruz and can play it for hours and hours and everything is at your fingertips?
Yes, I think you should mention you only play finger style 😀 Here’s why. . . my guitar when played with fingers or finger nails shines in all it’s glory. The OM ones from Santa Cruz do a lot of things to compliment finger style that can work against you when you’re strumming IMO. ESPECIALLY with the cocobolo and italian spruce, their attack response, balance, tone, and non linear responses on an OM Grand is a perfect choice for playing with a slight nail. I mostly play with a pick and strum though … I like a guitar to accompany singing. I think the OM Grand does come very close to straddling that line… one thing is using different strings and picks can drastically change my guitar which is both cool and kind of a pain when you don’t know how to get what you want haha.
I may skip out on the FWI in the comparison based off of your feedback and Bob’s. Thank you again for joining us on the forum and in this discussion my guitar friend
The particular woods I have were supposed to have been chosen to the highest specifications, and I think they were. But this Italian can tend towards coldness/stiffness and the Cocobolo can tend towards overly dark bell that is a bit too goopy on the lows and metallic on the highs. When you combine that it’s something I like to work against. By using mediums and 1.5mm pick I accomplish a few things… I’m driving it harder – it really really likes to be driven hard and has the headroom up until the point I’m just bashing it… that makes it woodier and more defined. The 1.5mm is a very nice even sound out of it. The Jazz LG bluechip brings in some chime and bloom which really helps. With all of that the downside I get is it gets a tad choked or compressed and loses that air and some dynamic. My wife says it sounds “professional” though when I use that setup 😀 😀 I try right…. I think I forgot to mention I wouldn’t mind a slightly chunkier woody attack like you get with adirondack.
Having said all this I DO like the guitar , it’s just that bit that I can’t shake or change makes me want to forfeit to someone for at least 7k and buy my RS ‘Southern Deluxe’ as I’ll probably call it – which I’m sure will clock in 11-13k.
If over the next few years however the guitar gets a bit chunkier in the attack from the top, more loose and punchy, more air, and just a bit drier then it would be cemented as a no sell. It’s hard to tell because when it was new it was so bad my guitar mentor was feeling bad for me guessing as to how much it possibly could have been and being upset that I was taken advantage of. Now he has even admitted to me that guitar has surprised him more than any and actually sounds quite decent now, on the way to really good and possibly super musical. It really to me sounds like the whole thing needs to just dry out some more – if that makes sense? The fundamentals need to be clearer and more dynamic and the overtones just need to move and swirl a little more, they’re too heavy
Bob agrees with you I think on putting elephant ivory in the past… but in the case of a musician with a super expensive instrument that’s almost there and has tried everything else he then at that point seemed to bring it forth. I didn’t even see it expressly priced and advertised much on the site, just some pics that he has some. He said in those cases it tends to be his favorite as long as it’s compatible tone wise, but it should only be used when you just can’t get it from bone.
Matt, it was suggested by multiple forum members for me to try out some ivory in the saddle and checkout Bob Colosi. Thank you for continuing to monitor the discussion and exchange back with me.
I didn’t necessarily come up with the idea myself, but after hearing one or two youtube videos that exist on the subject and have a demo I thought why not. The voice of my guitar just is always a little off… either I use a .88 mm pick and it’s too cold/stiff and metallic/treble shifted on a strum, or I use a 1.5 mm and it is a bit choked/closed off but with an even EQ and response.
I would say there is the EQ/balance of the guitar, the voice/character accompanying it, response, and then this thing that smaller guitars do – especially Santa Cruz ones – and that is to shift everything up to the trebles and become focused there with a more metallic sound. I like openness, chime, and air on the top end, but not that dominant focused metallic part. My low end is a little vague also and could use some definition. General woodiness, punch, and air mixed in slightly would be a shorthand way to describe it.
Bob Colosi said he doesn’t have the FWI/walrus, he said the FMI/mammoth would make the voice more metallic and shifted because it’s denser (and not compliment cocobolo if my guitar is the way it is sounding), but that elephant is softer than the bone plus it works well with Italian spruce and SC OM guitars… which is exactly what I have. It sounds like he really thinks the elephant will help the top end, but we are undecided on what will happen on the bottom and mids. My concern is it might become too dark in an overly rounded kind of way, but he didn’t think that would be an issue.
The other clips I have put up do not feature medium strings and the 1.5mm pick which is the solution I typically use for this guitar to sound it’s best to me.
I thought these pieces were like 150+ but they’re not. I think I may just get one of each and compare bone/elephant/mammoth or whatever is the third one. That might be fun for people to see if anyone else besides us cares lol.
I figure since I’m going to do a pick comparison, string comparison… might as well do a before and after of bridge pins and saddle too? Only problem I’m running into is that Carolyn sent me some strings to help out with it, but to do the comparison I’m probably going to need more. Not sure I want to spend money on the parts and the strings. If I don’t change the strings the detensioning and retightening of the strings to swap the saddle will likely effect the results. I thought I may just do from darkest to lightest saddle material to compensate. To do it right I would need 3-4 sets of strings, all the parts, and to pay my tech the time to do all the swaps exactly not to mention cutting them. Weighing it all out to see if I think it’s worth it or not. I would LIKE to document it though and I think other customers and forumites might think it’s cool. Right now I have just enough for the pick and string comparisons.
I think in short, I’m trying to liven up my guitar dynamically, and get a bit more woody punch and dry clarity… not a lot just a bit in that direction because I’m almost there… accompanied by a less focused more open airy sound. Maybe overall a 5-15% shift. A lot of that I accomplish with pick and string and adapting to the guitar.
FWIW , Bob Colosi also said that 5 years is not much on a guitar like this. Even with break in techniques and lots of playing, it’s STILL going to sound a lot better in 5-6 more years. Santa Cruz cut me a taller saddle this spring when they serviced it because it had some issues from birth apparently, and it did get louder, more powerful from the fix and then more punchy and responsive to strumming with the taller saddle… (I tested with a tech in person A/B blind with shims and without and he spoke with Richard H. on the phone).
Based on your question, I asked him today if he has documentation and he does have the corresponding articles for his ivory.
As an update I spoke with Bob Colosi today at the behest of recommendations. I explained to him my guitar and everything in the situation, he said that fossilized walrus ivory would probably make it more metallic and if not it would at least make the OM Grand too bright especially with Italian.
His suggestion was to opt for pre ban elephant ivory, that it would match well with a Santa Cruz OM style guitar as well as Italian Spruce.
And yes I meant bridge pins, didn’t know the terminology. Thank you
Also (since I can’t go back and edit)…. what do you think the differences between fossilized walrus ivory, fossilized mammoth ivory, and elephant ivory are? If you’ve done these to your guitars… Looking for more definition, fundamental, and depth in the lows… more substance, punch, and woody sound to mids, and for less shrillness or metallic sound out of the highs to be replaced by a more open chime. Right now with plain bone my strumming sound sits too much in the trebles and is unbalanced. Italian can be cold and stiff, more power and woody warmth (without losing clarity or air) could help. I use blue chip picks but Im willing to try Colosi’s picks, pins, and saddles if that’s the case… though if I can get the shop to fabricate the exact bridge they just built for me as a fix to my guitar that had an issue and send it to me I will – or for that matter copy the one they just gave me.
Found that video comparing bone and fossilized ivory… really good. It’s funny my H13 I had first had the ivory, but when we built this one I didn’t think it would be a good idea to do again because I think the answer was that it adds top end brightness. While it does seem to do that, and that is a concern for my OM Grand since the voice shifts to the top end… it kind of sounds pleasant in a drier airier kind of way that might allow me to use heavier picks for a more even sound without sounding choked on medium strings.
Thanks for the input, anyone have anything else to add in light of this video and comment?
Thanks everyone, a cutaway and an F or FTC style headstock are two of the features I’d like to incorporate into the RS i’m going to get coming up whenever someone buys my OM Grand. I didn’t notice anything unusual about the OM Grand with the cutaway I played in Austin TX
