July 13, 2018 at 9:41 am #1006Black BeautyParticipant
As a huge fan of SCGC with a limited budget, would you consider redoing something similar to one of the purposes (amongst others) of the PW series, which if I am not mistaken were modestly appointed in order to reduce the price for consumers (please correct me if I’m wrong)?
For example, Bourgeois and Huss & Dalton have released equivalent series to their fully glossed models with satin/matte finished back and sides.
Would be grateful for your thoughts. I appreciate that the cost of living is relatively higher in CA and so you do need to pay your employees fair and sustainable wages, but can this still be done if time spent on finish is decreased and the benefits passed on to the market?
July 15, 2018 at 5:55 pm #1021HankParticipant
I am NOT speaking for Richard but…..Would you ask Bentley or Rolls to cheapen their paint job and hand rubbed polish to save the buyer a few bucks ???
1993 Martin HD-28 IR/Sitka
2001 SCGC F Cutaway Maple/German
2008 SCGC OT Madi/Italian
2015 SCGC OM “The Tree” Hog/ European
2016 SCGC 1934 D45 Braz/ Adi
2016 Taylor K62 CE Limited Edition 12 string all Koa
2019 SCGC FTC Granadillo/Redwood
Life is a journey…not a guided tour,
The Bay,The Gulf Stream , The Open Ocean are particular about who they share their secrets with.
July 17, 2018 at 2:07 am #1034Black BeautyParticipant
I already provided examples (Bourgeois’ Generation Series and H&D’s Road Series) that are closer than your Bentley or Rolls Royce analogies.
July 21, 2018 at 2:15 am #1056Matt HaydenParticipant
Satin nitro is actually very difficult to do well. At an NCAL meeting some years ago, Rick Turner and Addam Stark discussed the challenges of getting a good satin nitro finish that didn’t require a lot of post-spray time that ate up work time and profit.
It would probably be easier to do a lower gloss nitro finish (like the Martin vintage series) which is less time and labor intensive, or else switch to a polyester finish. Polyester sprays satin well but it’s difficult to repair and can be hazardous to paint room staff – even more than nitro, a known sensitizer.
…and I checked, and Bourgeois uses catalyzed polyester finishes. It’s not bad stuff at all (it’s tough as nails) but it’s a choice that enables them to do satin without it being labor intensive.
- This reply was modified 3 years ago by Matt Hayden.
July 21, 2018 at 5:13 am #1062tadolModerator
I would add this – SCGC has not become the company it is by doing things the way other are doing them, or by adapting every change that comes down the road. They do not offer soundports, or bevels – they don’t bolt on necks, and while they’ve played with torrefied material, they still work almost exclusively with traditional seasoned materials. So just because other builders add a shape, or a finish, or almost anything else, that is not what would motivate Richard to change what they do at SCGC –
And specifically, a change in the finish would not result in much, if any, lowering of cost. Adding more finish options could potentially add cost, with the nature of their shop.
I can certainly understand the desire to get a SC a little cheaper – but I’ve found the bast way to do that is to keep your eyes open and be ready to jump when someone gets a bad case of GAS and lets one go – in fact, if there is a model or some specs on one you’d like to find, you might post it and we could all keep our eyes open for you!
Lots o’ SCGC guitars! But never ask which is my fav
July 21, 2018 at 12:15 pm #1065haasomeParticipant
BB I’m guessing you are looking for a response from SCGC, but I’ll give you my opinion. I own guitars made by Bourgeois, Collings and H&D and I’ve tried the “lower” models these brands offer – & gave my Waterloo to my grandson. I felt they were all lacking something the “better” models had and I wasn’t interested in having them in my collection. I’m reminded of the often stated saying, that there are 3 things that seem to be in balance: quality, price and service. It seems that lowering price might affect quality or service. I do understand and appreciate your question. It’s a good one. But I guess it depends on whether SCGC wants to serve that market segment.
– Paul –
July 21, 2018 at 9:06 pm #1075sdelsolrayParticipant
The differences between a standard SCGC model and its PW sibling only involve a few things, such as different and less frequent binding on the PW, forward shifted bracing on the PW and tapered vs. scalloped bracing, different finish (gloss vs. matte) on the back of the neck. Other luthier’s differences between their standard model and economy model usually have more differences.
I don’t know if the main purpose of the PW was to offer a less expensive guitar, although that no doubt was a factor. The difference in price between a standard and PW still exists and I suspect the relative percentage difference is about the same.
Keep in mind that the base prices for all SCGC guitars have increased quite a bit since the PW was introduced over 10 years ago.
In addition, there were not many, if any, customized PWs in those early years since it was introduced. Now, customized PWs are quite common, with attendant higher prices.
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