OM Grand 12 Fret?

[willielomax]

Hello all!  I used to be a member in the olden days and now have returned!  Question – is there an OM grand 12 feet long scale?  If not is there anything close in the Santa Cruz’ lineup?

[indexless]

Hey Willie,

Welcome back, hope you enjoy the forum. The OM Grand is a deep body, moving to a 12 fret would require a rebracing (I think) and moving the bridge, that being said, I LOVE 12 fret’s, it might make a ripping guitar. I think you’d be best to call the shop, if possible they could spec it out for you

[tadol]

Wouldn’t a D-12 be a somewhat close approximation? And I know they made some deep body 000’s, the Rising Fawns? Those were 12 fret. And there are definitely short and  long scale F’a, but I’ve never seen a 12 fret F.  Brozmans are 12 fret, but those are x-long scale –

[willielomax]

Yea just wondering… had in mind a OOOO size Non Deep body 12 fretter- I knew about the dread 12 fret idea – just not looking for it’s body depth or that of the OM grand for that matter, if it’s also a deep body.

[indexless]

The RS is a 12t deep body

[Matt Hayden]

Being a bit pedantic….”OM” implies 14 frets on a square-shouldered body, long scale, 1-3/4” nut, and wide-ish string spacing at the bridge.   The whole purpose of the original Martin OMs was greater reach and a slightly different body shape to appeal to jazz ensemble players who needed to easily get to higher notes than typical 12-fret bodies facilitated.

A short-scale OM is really a 14-fret 000, if we’re using consistent nomenclature.

A ‘12-fret OM anything’ is kind of an oxymoron.  12-fret instruments have a rounder upper bout that joins the body at the 12th fret, which is….a 12-fret 000, a very different beast than an OM (though no less wonderful), as OMs are characterized by 14-fret necks.

A 14-fret OM Grand implies one of two things: putting a 12-fret neck on a 14-fret square-shouldered body, which (IMO) reduces reach on the neck to no good purpose and doesn’t really move the bridge to a much better place, or a redesign of the body to extend the upper bout to become a true 12-fret 0000.   Here’s more or less what the latter would look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiNiLZA-fZM.

It’s a huge guitar.   A 12-fret dread has similar body volume….

 

</pedantic> that tag never really closes

[willielomax]

I see what you are saying and I appreciate the thinking on this…So to also be pedantic:  so Santa Cruz doesn’t play in the Martin 0000-12 fret world?  As an owner of two Santa Cruz guitars and several Martins, have recently acquired just such a Martin model; and I have found it’s sound to be quite the ticket imho… and was deliberating how I would go about a custom order for a similar fashioned guitar… via Santa Cruz.

[iim7V7IM7]

I think the closest thing to what you are asking for in Santa Cruz’s line up is either a 000 12 fret (15”) or a D-12 (15-5/8”) with a 25-3/8” scale. A Martin 0000 or M size are 14 fret guitars. All of my guitars > 15” guitars are 14 fret to the body guitars.

[Matt Hayden]

I concur with iim7V71M7; the 000-12-fret is probably as close as you’ll get in the SCGC line unless they do a custom one-off 0000 12-fret body with extended upper bout a la other similar 12-fret models.  Having played the Martin 12-fret 0000s that Gruhn’s ordered in the past (like the one in the video), I think they sound great, though they’re right on the edge of uncomfortably large for me. .

Hank has an SCGC 12-fret 000, which by all accounts sounds great and checks off all the sonic and playability boxes; it’d be worth talking to him to get input on that.  I’ve got Daniel’s Mauel 000-12, which is a big instrument of the same size…..12-fret 000s move a lot of air and are pretty big, even compared to dreads.

In general, I’m not especially a fan of putting 12-fret necks on 14-fret bodies….doing so gives up air mass that (IMO) is part of the sauce that makes a 12-fret sweeter (and may add volume), and it gives up upper-fretboard reach that I use (I know, playing over the body is a learnable skill, but cutaways are easier). The aesthetics, are, of course, personal – chacon a son gout – but not my cup of tea.

There IS precedent for a 12-fret neck on a 14-fret body.   James Patterson did a bunch of 12-fret necks on 14-fret 000 bodies in the 70s, and Martin (and I think SCGC) did the same for Norman Blake. So it’s out there.

But my question is why do that with an OM Grand, when you can have more fret access and just as much power with a 14-fret neck?  What would you gain that you wouldn’t get with a 12-fret 000 with extended upper body?

• This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Matt Hayden.

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